Couches on Fire: greetings from the great white....east?

Wednesday, October 05, 2005

greetings from the great white....east?

Mo-dudes and Mo-chicks,
Everyone's favorite (perhaps least favorite?) impromptu party haver and 123 show booker, Jarrod Curry, here with a message from the city of brotherly love. Brian and Jeremy were kind enough to let me in on this little forum of Morgantown music despite the fact I'm no longer living in WV. The reason I asked to be a part of this thing was because I heard some people were "bent outta shape" (as my mom would say) regarding the $6 cover at certain local-style shows now. I thought I'd come in and make my little comment about seeing both sides (since I'm usually the middleman) and probably some sarcastic remarks that I think are funny but are probably in poor taste.
But I think for right now, I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and see what others have to say and how the show goes on Saturday. I'll be in attendance at said show and even though it will be the first show I've been to since I've moved where I won't hang out with celebrities or rock stars, I'll be hanging out with my friends and drinking some black label. So I'm excited. Feel free to discuss raising the cover at local shows, how awesome I am, how I suck, or whatever. See you dudes this weekend.

P.S.
Where the party at?!

42 Comments:

At 10/06/2005 9:40 AM, miafrate said…

Well, Jarrod, didn't expect to see you running your mouth about this $6 show over here as well. You knew I would I would be the first to chime in.

I set the door price to this show at $6 because there are four bands, two of which are from out of town (Deadsea and Cobra). That means the show is hardly a "local-type" show, whatever you seem to mean or imply by making categories like that.

From your post it sounds like you perceive this to be a trend or something in Morgantown. If you are rererring to the recent Drown Culture show that was also $6, I can explain the reasoning there as wel, and it does involve a mistake on my part. The original lineup for that show was Drown Culture, Cold Smoke, and Houseguest. All of those bands are from our of town, so again I thought $6 was a good way to go. I set that door price a month or more before the show happened. Houseguest cancelled about a week before the show and I replaced him with Sean Decker who, although he is from out of town, and although he is a kickass musician and performer, would not neccessitate raising the door price since he is a solo act. When I got to the show and after several people had been let in, I realized that I had forgotten to change the price back to $5. And for that I apologize to anyone who was concerned.

As far as the show this Saturday goes... What we have is a four band show with a diverse lineup, something that has been praised on this blog more than once. Other people complain that they only want to see this band or that band on a given night, and not the whole lineup, so they complain about the door price. Now I am certainly a critic of bands that have inflated guarantees and I'm a critic of unnaturally high door prices. But it seems as though some showgoers have developed a very individualistic, consumerist mindset about going to shows where they, apparently, would like the option to pay $1 or $2 and have that money go to the specific band he or she is actually going to see. And I don't think that makes much sense. Either that, or they have a "tradition" mindset that since shows have by and large been set at $5 for years here in Morgantown (except for you, know, shows like The Walkmen, J Mascis, Will Oldham, etc etc that they paid $10 or more to see), that door price should never change, even in response to different show models, including adding extra bands on the bill or having a higher number of out of town bands on the show. I'm not saying that the $5 "tradition" needs to change across the board. But it's kind of looking that way. It might, at least, need to change with regard to certain shows where it just makes sense to raise the price a dollar or two.

I think people know the reasons why the price was raised. The problem is in the show's diversity, I think. The people that are complaining, from what I understand (and that's only hearsay, because the ONLY person I have actually heard bitch about this show is JARROD), are complaining because the "only band they really want to see is Cobra." Which simply isn't fair to the other bands on the bill. If it were a 4-band show that featured bands that my bands usually play with (Librarians, J Marinelli, etc), this probably wouldn't be an issue. $6 would be just fine. But it's that consumerist mentality that if-I-don't-personally-care-to-see-
the-other-bands-then-they-don't-
really-deserve-to-get-paid.

And all I can say to that mentality is, by acting as though you are simply a music consumer, you have the consumer choice whether or not to go to any given show. You make choices to pay $15 to go see a band that you love where you won't give two shits about who the opening bands are, but you have a problem slapping down one extra dollar for a four-band show of independent musicians who really are the ones you should be supporting more strongly anyway. I understand, to some degree, people's concerns, because I too get suspicious about higher ticket prices and stuff, but the reasons for the extra buck at this show make sense. But if you decide not to come for whatever reason, cool. You decide what you will and won't do.

I will say that going to a kick ass rock show is much more fun that bitching about door prices on a computer forum from hundreds of miles away from a city where door prices are $8 or more for a comparable show. So quit your bitching and come hang out.
At 10/06/2005 10:01 AM, Anonymous said…

i just wish i had a six dollar bill. i wonder who would be on the six dollar bill...

DISCUSS!

-mattpryor
At 10/06/2005 10:21 AM, miafrate said…

Syd Barrett, of course.
At 10/06/2005 11:26 AM, Anonymous said…

when I was booking shows we often charged $5 because of the reasons outlined in the above joke... it was an even denomination of bill and everybody could afford it. It was a little wierder cause I was dealing totally with all ages shows, so there was definitely less income to work with... I mean, I think we only charged 5 bucks for brother's keeper and stretch armstrong! of course, in hindsight, we should have charged more for alot of these shows, especially with the number of touring bands we brought in.

anyway, at the end of the day, one dollar is hardly worth arguing about. being in a traveling/touring band can be downright shitty monetarily speaking and if music fans don't understand that, they should. cest la vie, eh?

Evan!
At 10/06/2005 1:44 PM, Jeremy Groghan said…

Hey everybody, I wanted to tell you guys that you should not be hatin' on Mikey. I repeat: do NOT hate on Mikey or I will hate on you. With a vengence.

If anyone who thinks this extra dollar is obscene would like to contact me personally, I will invite you to my home before the show starts and I will treat you to a rare performance of my classic early 90s routine "The Tragic Beating of Nancy Kerrigan."

This show has been unavailable to the viewing public and hasn't been seen since 1995 at my family reunion.

It was regrettable that this performance had to be stopped early after my aunt demanded I "stop that screamin' 'n carryin' on right this instant!"

Anyway, it's a pretty realistic and harrowing reenactment of American figure skating's darkest hour.

So if you are worried that "the man" is getting you down on the ticket prices, give me a ring and I'll give you an Oscar-worthy performance in my very own living room.* That's worth at least a buck. Hell that's worth at least two bucks. You pigs should be glad that I'm not charging you anything to see it.

And also I would just like to say that Jarrod is an Alanis Morrissette type bitch who fucked Uncle Joey from Full House and now she thinks she's all hot shit.

Well you know what Jarrod, you are not hot shit. You're not. No one cares about how you hate to bug him in the middle of dinner, the cross you bare, blah blah blah blah, bitch bitch bitch, whine whine whine.

We've heard it a million times and I think I speak for everyone when I say we're sick of it.

"Would she go down on you in a theatre?" SOME OF US WOULD RATHER NOT SPECULATE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

-J to tha G

* I'm dead serious.
At 10/06/2005 1:48 PM, Brian said…

Alright, well I feel the need to weigh in a bit, although $1 is not enough to normally make me complain. However, I do have to say that arguments can be made regarding the tradition of paying $5 for an out of town/out of state band.

When I grew up in Charleston there was a thriving all-ages scene there, and $5 was also the tradition there. Now there weren't actually so many bands from Nitro or Charleston, where the venues were, so by its own definition, almost every band was an 'out of town band' being from Hurricane or Teays Valley or Boone County or wherever. But that's just part of living in Charleston I guess, in all its spread out glory.

But not only these shows were $5. I remember seeing bands like Goatfudge from Ohio, Pretty Mighty Mighty from Columbus, Chum from Huntington, Groovezilla (chuckle) from Lexington and so on. And all of these shows were $5.

Likewise here at the 123, it is not uncommon to see up-and-coming touring acts to be playing at shows which charge $5. I imagine the Sandra Black CD release party, which will feature such lovable locals as Mssr. James Marinelli and Librarians sans the alongside MA's Spouse...jeez this is a run-on sentence you could touch the moon with. Anyway I bet that'll be $5.

Yeah the Walkmen et. al are $10. But the Walkmen are also a big, touring act with a guarantee, multiple tour dates and so on. And so are all of the other acts you mentioned. I think it usually boils down to a band wanting a guarantee or not, and it's rare that a band who is just coming down for the lone show would be asking for a guarantee, so it tends to be bands on an extended tour who charge more.

Now, all of that aside, the promoter should charge what he or she wants and "the market" will decide if that price floats or sinks. I think that if the show is a flop, it will prove that $6 was too much, and if it is a success it proves it was reasonable. So Mikey can do what he likes as far as I'm concerned.

One last thing though. I'm just not a big fan of the four-band format at 123 personally. Over the last couple months there has been marked improvements in the starting time of shows, but with four bands it must still be something of a logistical nightmare. Also you've got the issue of having to cut the door money four ways when often it's only three or even two. So I think it's only something I'd do if each band had a large and separate following who would show up. Does Cobra? I'd say so. Treasurecat? Definitely they have their peeps. Hovel? I've never seen 'em so I can't say. And as for Deadsea I've never heard of them prior to the show. I don't know what the answer is, but I guess we'll all see Saturday. I certainly don't mind paying a buck extra, but I would be disappointed if this became a trend.
At 10/06/2005 2:13 PM, miafrate said…

Brian, I see your point on a lot of your comments... but just some other things to think about...

You mentioned that shows in Charleston when you were growing up were $5. From what I recall, most shows in Parkersburg were $5 as well, except for benefit shows. That was over TEN YEARS ago. When I was in high school, gas was less than $1.00 a gallon. It seems to me that in ten years it's kind of weird that we HAVEN'T seen much of a price increase on shows. And again, I'm not saying that all shows should be $6 or $7 or anything, but just that showgoers should cut promoters and bands some slack if they decide that on a given show they're going to raise the price a buck.

Yeah the Walkmen et. al are $10. But the Walkmen are also a big, touring act with a guarantee, multiple tour dates and so on. And so are all of the other acts you mentioned. I think it usually boils down to a band wanting a guarantee or not, and it's rare that a band who is just coming down for the lone show would be asking for a guarantee, so it tends to be bands on an extended tour who charge more.

This is true, but when a band doesn't have a guarantee, most promoters tend to see themselves as "off the hook." I try not to do that, and I'd like Deadsea to get a decent amount for their trip, which is over 3 hours. And they were confirmed well before TC or Hovel were.

Likewise here at the 123, it is not uncommon to see up-and-coming touring acts to be playing at shows which charge $5. I imagine the Sandra Black CD release party, which will feature such lovable locals as Mssr. James Marinelli and Librarians sans the alongside MA's Spouse...jeez this is a run-on sentence you could touch the moon with. Anyway I bet that'll be $5.

Most of the time, though, you have one out of town band and a couple local bands, as in your example above. If there's more than one, say two or three, PLUS a couple local bands, I think it's perfectly understandable (and fair) to adjust the price a bit.

I do agree w/ your comment about 4-band shows. I certainly prefer them. The case with this show was that I booked Deadsea and Cobra first and asked Treasurecat. They didn't get to LJ for a while, so I asked Hovel who said they could play. Treasurecat then finally got back to LJ and said they could do it to, so we just added them and bumped the price up a buck. No reason to ask any of those bands not to play, especially if we start the show right at 10pm.
At 10/06/2005 2:14 PM, miafrate said…

In the above post I used the word "to" instead of "too". Sorry. I'm not stupid.
At 10/06/2005 2:34 PM, Anonymous said…

Mikey, you have no idea what I was going to say about this subject, you're already mad at me for some other reasons apparently, so I just wanted to let you know that my initial idea for the post was more about both sides than complaining about the cost. I'm not talking shit, I wasn't running my mouth, etc. This wasn't meant to offend you, it was merely meant to bring the subject up because you seem to think I'm the only one with an issue about it. But since everything I've done lately has offended you, I'm not surprised.
In regard to your comment that there are multipe out of town bands, there is a simple answer for that. Take one of them out. Though I'm sure Deadsea is good, if the concern is money, then why not make a 3 band bill in which the two locals will provide enough draw for the out-of-towner? I'll have to agree with Brian that 4 band shows are a nightmare sometimes. Seeing for bands takes its toll when you're trying to get drunk. I like to be at least coherent for the last band and sometimes 4 bands is just too much time.
Mikey, if my comments about cobra (from my blog) are what upset you, then just say so. If not, I have no idea what your problem with me is but we should probably resolve it. I meant for this post to be more of a discussion any anything else, I've definitely heard others talking about it and I hoped they would respond. If one single dollar was an issue for me, I probably wouldn't be driving five hours to go to this show. I was just hoping some discussion would occur so it didn't seem to you that this was all on my end. I think you need to lighten up a bit, maybe the pressure of all this rock might be a little to much for you. Come saturday I'm totally going to fight you... To let me buy you a beer!
At 10/06/2005 3:03 PM, Anonymous said…

If everyone who has bitched about paying an extra buck or two would just stop and think for a minute about how that buck or two breaks down, they'd probably feel pretty dumb. When you consider how many ways a dollar has to be split, it really amounts to spare change. But if the show is a success, it all adds up.
If someone involved in whatever show you are seeing came up to you and asked you for a nickel, would you freak out? Most people would probably give a way twenty nickels without thinking about it, but a whole dollar bill -ohmygod paper money!- is simply impossible to part with.
And on top of that, with gas prices lately, it costs a whole hell of a lot more to travel anywhere- particularly in the trucks/vans necessary to tour.
Just ask for a Black Label instead of a Stoneys a couple of times throughout the evening and presto!...there's your precious dollar back.
At 10/06/2005 5:10 PM, Jeremy Groghan said…

That's a pretty reasonable thing to say there, anon-uh-mouse. Let's just get one thing cleared up, though.

I am not really mad at Jarrod. In fact, I love him like a mama bird loves all the babies in her nest, but like a baby bird, Jarrod can sometimes get into mischief.

I'm not saying this mischief has to do with the $1 extra debate. Doubtless Jarod has gotten into a bunch of mischief that I wouldn't even begin to know about seeing as he lives up north (or "nawth" as I like to call it) far away from my gentle wings.

So while I am not necessary livid with Jarod over his post, I merely used the post as an excuse to force him to make recompense for any other hithertofore unseen hijinks and shennanigans.

It's like when you eat too much candy as a child and your old man hits you with a belt and then five minutes later he hits you again and you say "Hey what was that for?" and he goes "That was for whatever you did when I wasn't around to catch your sneaky sinister ass."
At 10/06/2005 5:18 PM, Anonymous said…

I'm going to stick my neck out here, since this an open forum for discussion. I think raising the price to $6 is not a good thing. I happened to be at the Drown Culture show, and much to my surprise, when I got to the door the admission price was $6. I'm not bitching about one "measly extra buck", but the fact that that show was not advertised as being $6. And I do check out flyers, read bulletins, check out 123's website, blah blah blah.. and no where did I see the door price advertised. That is, til I got to the door. I also think that changing the so-called $5 tradition is a bad idea. The reason why most people don't mind paying more at the door for a bigger show is exactly as P-tron stated: these are bigger bands, most have a guarantee, and most are currently touring. As for raised gas prices, I honestly cannot feel any sympathy. If a band is planning on driving 3 hours to play a show, then they're PLANNING on it. Get the drift? I've never seen a band walk in with a receipt from a gas station, expecting to be reimbursed. That's not why musicians play music. No one (no one I know, anyway) plays a show at 123 because they expect to get rich. People play music because they enjoy doing it. I don't think it's fair to expect a "loyal following" to shell out more money at the door (even if it is just a "measly buck"). I think we also need to keep in mind who it is that comes to shows at 123 Pleasant Street. These are mostly college (or college-aged) kids with not a whole lot of a disposable income. Once you start upping the price at the door, you start alienating your audience. And if this is an audience that has consistantly been paying $5 to see a particular band, then attending shows will start to go the way that driving and high gas prices have gone. People will start to become more discriminating about which shows they go to and how often they go to see a show. I think that people need to rethink the purpose of shows at 123 and who they're playing for.
NOTE: Brian, don't take this as a direct diss or anything. I think you work your ass off and I'm glad to see that you are actively booking shows. Let's just put some more thought into things.
At 10/06/2005 5:34 PM, Anonymous said…

I agree with Eir-anne. NUFF SAID!
At 10/06/2005 5:49 PM, Anonymous said…

hey, i thought i would share my personal opinion. i don't see the reason of having one extra dollar slapped on there. for librarians' first show i had a large 5 band bill. 3 locals, one touring band, one band that drove just from richmond, va to play the show... i charged 5 dollars... promoted the fuck out of it. paid every band $200. that is not the only show that turned out like that.

how much more do you need for gas? i mean, and that's not including any merch these bands can sell at the show, also.

call me whatever you want but when i break down my numbers they don't match up for anything that i see as reasonable.

if the attendance isn't supporting the needs of the band then it is up to the out of town band to make the decision of not coming. that is the whole purpose of guarantees. to make sure that the needs of the band are set.

also, this is not an attack on the promoter. it is their decision to take the risk of making a larger door price knowing that it may damper attendance but not enough to make more money.

you can't get mad at the promoter for making the show $6.00 but you can't get mad for people not attending based on the door price, either. it's the risk of doing shows.

Also, I must be in the minority but if I was in a band and knew that I was going to be playing a well attended show. Going out of town, that is such a breath of fresh air that I wouldn't mind losing some money from the band to play the show. All of these bands are hopefully doing it to play and get their music heard.

No bad intentions were meant on either side of this debate. I just want to hopefully open up some misunderstandings that have been thrown around.

have a good day,
Bryan
At 10/06/2005 6:22 PM, Brian said…

Mikey, those are good points, and thanks for reminding me we're both old motherfuckers. Awesome. Seriously though, I'm willing to pay an extra buck, but if I were in a band playing in another city, I'd rather it be less to get in and have more kids at the show (who, as Bryan pointed out, might buy more merch). But it doesn't seem unreasonable especially when you explained the circumstances. What I do take issue with is the suggestion that the $5 price is too low and should be changed overall.

When I promote, which is admittedly a slightly different situation, I always make enough on $5 and even $3 admission to give the bands a decent take, and I know that four-band bill last month paid out really well to all those bands. Attendence at local shows seems to be on the upswing from my perspective and I worry that charging $6 routinely will drive away some people who would come in, have a good time, maybe even start their own bands down the line. I think we'd all rather have good turnouts than make a bunch of money. If there isn't enough door money, a lot of local bands and promoters will do the really cool thing of giving more to the out of town bands. I don't know. There's good arguments for and against it. In the end I think I just like having a civil discussion. It gets people thinking, maybe informs some people about what a promoter has to go through and balance, and consider being in their shoes.
At 10/06/2005 7:19 PM, miafrate said…

Wow - a lot of voices have joined in and that's great. I do think I need to address some things though...

JARROD: In regard to your comment that there are multipe out of town bands, there is a simple answer for that. Take one of them out. Though I'm sure Deadsea is good, if the concern is money, then why not make a 3 band bill in which the two locals will provide enough draw for the out-of-towner?

Jarrod, when you're the promoter, you're free to do what you want and not have more than 1 out of town band on a bill. But I know you don't really operate that way because whenever you booked us, there was frequently at least one other out of town band on the bill.

JARROD AGAIN: Seeing four bands takes its toll when you're trying to get drunk. I like to be at least coherent for the last band and sometimes 4 bands is just too much time.

That's purely a subjective thing and has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Eir-anne, I love ya, but I think your perspective completely neglects to think about the band's side of things.

First of all about the Drown Culture show that was $6 and you didn't know the door price till you got to the show... The only flyers that existed for the $6 Drown Culture show were the ones that I made and distributed, and they all said $6 on them. You can look at it online here: http://photobucket.com/albums/v208/miafrate/?action=view¤t=DCdeckercoldsmoke.jpg

Also, you mentioned that higher door prices for "bigger" touring bands is understandable because they are on tour. Actually, I have been on tour about 4 times, and it's actually WAY easier to pay for your gas and stuff if you are on tour. One-off shows make it MUCH MUCH harder to break even because you're usually driving longer distances in a shorter amount of time. Plus I think the idea of "bigger" vs. "smaller" bands is kind of hierarchical and I don't like that too much.

If a band is planning on driving 3 hours to play a show, then they're PLANNING on it. Get the drift? I've never seen a band walk in with a receipt from a gas station, expecting to be reimbursed. That's not why musicians play music. No one (no one I know, anyway) plays a show at 123 because they expect to get rich. People play music because they enjoy doing it.

I completely disagree with you here. When an out of town band books a show, there is an agreement between the band and the promoter. The band agress to take the time and energy to travel to play a show and the promoter agrees to do everything he or she can to get people there and to make the trip worthwhile, and, at the VERY least, PAY for itself. While no band I know of actually produces receipts, it's understood that they will at least get gas money. There is no, or SHOULD BE NO, "well, band, it's YOUR fault that you didn't get what you needed... you should have known not to drive 3 hours to play a show here." That's ridiculous.

And yes, I know why musicians play music. I'm one of them. I certainly don't play music to "get rich." If I had set the door price at $8 or $10 I could see why you might accuse me of that, but I'm sorry, I don't see it considering it's only $6. And I kind of think it sucks that you felt you had to say that. Like the anonymous person said, $6 doesn't amount to that much when you split it between the bands.

You also said: I think we also need to keep in mind who it is that comes to shows at 123 Pleasant Street. These are mostly college (or college-aged) kids with not a whole lot of a disposable income. Once you start upping the price at the door, you start alienating your audience.

I remember what it was like to be in college. I wasn't a rich kid by any means. I had very little disposable income in college. But I don't think $1 is that big of a deal. It's equivalent to ONE Black Label. And how many BL's will each "college kid" who comes to the show drink by the end of the night?

BRIAN said: What I do take issue with is the suggestion that the $5 price is too low and should be changed overall.

Right. Which is what I said earlier. I'm not neccessarily in favor of an overall increase. I just think that in some cases it can be neccessary. It wasn't neccessary with the last DC show, and I apologized for that already. But this time I just felt like it was neccessary. But you all are right - the "market" will determine whether this flies or not. And I'm sure that this debate has blown this all out of proportion isn't really helping much. But I stand by the decision.
At 10/06/2005 7:19 PM, Skull-Shaped Maracas said…

Gee, I wonder what Ian MacKaye would say about this...
At 10/06/2005 8:03 PM, Brian said…

Personally even though things can get a little nasty on here, I think it's in general a positive thing. Maybe the discussions get ugly but I think people would think more ill of one another if they never brought these things out into the open and learned some of the reasons why people made decisions they didn't agree with. But that's me. I'd rather discuss it on a blog than behind someone's back.
At 10/06/2005 8:54 PM, Skull-Shaped Maracas said…

all,

before i begin, i'd like to add the disclaimer that i've been awake since 7am, and, as a result, my spiel may get a but 'stream-of-(un)consciousness.'

***

first off:

darn! i thought the next comment would be someone groaning because i brought ian mackaye into this. some people just get so angry when you invoke the great one's name.

***

anyway, i said what i said with tongue planted firmly in cheek (or as crothers once said "tongue planted firmly beyond cheek"), and if were to seriously weigh in on the discussion i'd say that i completely respect mikey's decision, and i'd offer that ANY door cover that ANY musician wants to set at ANY venue isn't ANY of my business -- unless i am that musician.

and, because i am a musician with some control over how his shows are priced, structured, etc. i will continue playing shows for a mere five bucks, whether it may hurt of help my 'career' (HAHAHAHAHA!), simply because the fiver seems like a fair price to this cheap bastard.

it works logistically as well. in my opinion, an extra dollar ('specially for us broke-ass morgantonians) would more than likely drive people away than help matters.

and besides, i'd offer that having more people COMING to and ENJOYING THEMSELVES (music be the food of love, innit?) at a show i play for a $5 cover is well worth the 'paycut' that playing at such a price may portend.

***

of course, i have had to turn down at least one show for a 'big' band (indeed, a heirarchy of big-shot fabulously rich'n'famous bands and wee little bands does exist, whether we want it to or not) and perhaps turning down a show with the walkmen may have cost me some cred points or something, i did so in sound mind.

again -- tongue beyond cheek.

***

now, if MIKE WATT were to come back (pant, pant)...

***

lastly

quoth my bro bryan:

"going out of town -- that is such a breath of fresh air that I wouldn't mind losing some money from the band to play the show. All of these bands are hopefully doing it to play and get their music heard"

thank you, bryan!!!

i'm with you 100% -- and this is coming from a guy (me, not bryan, i think) who has had the rare pleasure of going on tour eleven wonderful, wonderful times.

may there be eleven more!!!

i mean, the thrill of tour is *getting* the actual show, hanging out with your friends (all hail the emergency/braille drivers burning pile of money in a ditch tour, 2004!!! an experience i will never forget!), playing music every night (imagine!), and seeing the world outside your little area.

i kind of got off the subject a bit. sorry... you know, 7AM and all...

j out!
At 10/06/2005 8:59 PM, Skull-Shaped Maracas said…

nasty, brian? my feet are a little nasty at this point, but that's about it...
At 10/06/2005 9:03 PM, Anonymous said…

"catch catch the horror taxi! i fell in love with a video nasty!"

sorry.
At 10/06/2005 9:38 PM, miafrate said…

Ian MacKaye -- I actually do invoke the name quite often as all those Fugazi dudes are pretty much the model for good scene ethics as far as I'm concerned. (And they've been known to play shows where they have charge $6 or $7 I might add!)

A couple replies to Jarrod:

the way I operated in regard to out of town bands was based on how well I thought the out of town band would bring people in or that I thought most 123 show goers would be into so more people would come. Deadsea is more of a niche band and I don't know if they are a draw for the show themselves.

Deadsea probably isn't very much of a draw. Absolutely. Niche band? Sure. I think all the bands on this show are "niche bands." Don't matta, bro.

While everyone in a band thinks that the promoter should think of them first and foremost; the truth is that the crowd is your number one priority. No crowd, no money.

Well no, I don't think that band is the primary concern. If I did, hell, why not charge $10? I think both the crowd and the band have to be a priority. Obviously you cannot have a show without a band or without a crowd. Both bands and showgoers have concerns and needs, and the best thing to do is take both into account. And that depends on a lot of different factors. Considering all the factors, this is the decision I made, taking BOTH the crowd and the bands (ALL the bands, not just my own) into account.

You have to think of who will bring the kids in.

Absolutely. I think the bands on the bill will probably bring a good, diverse crowd in.

Sometimes you have to seem like a dick by telling a band that they can't play because you finally heard back from the first band you contacted. That's just the way it goes.

But I didn't see any reason to. LJ was fine w/ 4 bands, and I wanted all 4 bands to play. So that's the way it came together.

When I booked shows I tried to work around $5 as a door price because even though there's only $1 difference, it does make a difference to people who weren't planning on going to the show but they're deciding what to do that night.

Out of all the people who disagree with the $6 thing, most have said, from what I can see, is that they disagree with it mostly in principle, but that the $1 is not enough to keep them away. (Brian, for example.) The fact is most people who would be coming would be drinking and spending that money on one can of beer at the show.
At 10/06/2005 10:40 PM, Skull-Shaped Maracas said…

yes, fugazi has played shows in larger cities (l.a. , n.y.) for $6 or $7. since 1988, morgantonians (and denizens of many other larger towns) have never payed any more than a fiver to see them.

i don't mean to smash ants with a hammer but i booked the evens (featuring a baritone guitarist with the name "ian mackaye" on his driver's license) at the blue moose last year. cover charge: $3.

your resident punkologist

*j*
At 10/06/2005 10:46 PM, Anonymous said…

Ummmm... I hate to burst anyones bubble, but a 'hierarchy' of bands does exist. If it didn't, then why is it that people paid $10 to see the Walkmen last weekend (no questions asked)and there is such a debate about "one more measly buck" for the show on Saturday?
I think you'll get my point.
At 10/06/2005 11:09 PM, Anonymous said…

Just wanted to clarify: Mikey - I'm not saying that 'bigger' bands are better than 'smaller' bands. I wouldn't go to a Walkmen show if they were playing for free. However, one of the best 'live acts' I've seen recently is just one dude, and I think it was at an open mic so there wasn't a charge at all (David F'in Bello). I have shelled out big bucks for a big band and not regretted it- Mission of Burma was $25 plus ticketmaster surcharges. My point is: bigger bands typically ask for more at the door than smaller, more obscure bands do. So there's your hierarchy, agree with it or not.
At 10/06/2005 11:31 PM, miafrate said…

J -- Not to add to the ant smashing, but The Evens were the only band that played that show, were they not?

Eir-anne -- Of course a music hierarchy exists, actually many hierarchies. The one that I detest is the one that implies that bands who are signed, on tour, or "bigger" deserve to get compensated for travel expenses while other bands do not. That, as far as I'm concerned, is bullshit. As for The Walkmen show, I know a LOT of people who didn't go to that show because of the price, actually. So it was hardly that "no questions were asked." The crowd was pretty thin. I went mainly to see David Bello. Seeing The Walkmen was a little plus but I wasn't all that impressed. $10 to see David Bello? I won't complain about it. Dude rocked.

For all the "debate" that is supposedly happening, I don't think I have heard of anyone saying that they simply will not come because it's $6. Maybe these people are out there, I don't know. If they decide that's what they want to do, that's they're choice.
At 10/06/2005 11:34 PM, miafrate said…

They're should be their. Dammit. Sorry J. ;)
At 10/07/2005 12:46 AM, Brian said…

It's not so much that signed bands 'deserve' to be compensated for expenses, it's that usually enough folks have heard of them that they'll pay the extra $4 or whatnot, whereas if the band is obscure and people haven't heard them, they'll spend that $4 towards buying the band's CD if they like them. Or they'll buy a shot of Jager, Idunno...
At 10/07/2005 9:46 AM, Skull-Shaped Maracas said…

i'd gladly discuss the details of the evens show with you, mikey, but this forum is hardly the erm... forum... for that. we can talk about it over a beer or coffee sometime. i'm buying.

respect

j
At 10/07/2005 3:29 PM, Anonymous said…

JARROD, IN REGARDS TO YR COMMENTS, I AM OFFENDED! you were wondering where the party is at... well, friday night, we're having people over to drink. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS!

saturday the party moves elsewhere... to south park i believe

p.s. i get in free so i shouldnt really have an opinion abt this, but id totally pay $6 to see this show.
At 10/07/2005 3:56 PM, Anonymous said…

I will wait until cobra plays a $5.00 show. If they don't play $5.00 shows then it will be like a big band, and I'll wait for music samples before I decide to go to a show.

And yeah, I chose not to go to the Walkmen show because it was $10.00. I saw them open for Modest Mouse and thought they were pretty lame.

Bryan
At 10/07/2005 4:29 PM, miafrate said…

Bryan, I respect your decision, I suppose, although I think you of all people should know that the $6 thing does not in any way imply that we think are are a 'big' band or an inflated sense of who we are, which is what I sensed you feel from what you posted. In fact it has little to do with me or COBRA at all, but like I said it has to do with the number of bands and the fact that two of the four bands are from out of town. In other words, we aren't charging six "just because we can," or any of that silliness. If I were not in charge of the show, but were only playing in it, and the promoter was charging five, I would not ask that he or she charge six. But since I am also the promoter, I feel a certain sense of responsibility toward the bands as well as the crowd. You should understand this since you also have been known to book shows.

Do what you want. We'll definitely miss you though. It's a shame you won't be there.
At 10/08/2005 8:01 PM, Anonymous said…

IT'S A FUCKING DOLLAR, PEOPLE!
At 10/09/2005 1:49 AM, Anonymous said…

Mikey, c'mon, you know how I feel about you. I didn't mean to imply you or any of the bands on the show had inflated egos.

I just meant that I will act as if these were bands that I had never heard, which I haven't. So, would I go to a show at 123 that had an extra dollar thrown on by 3 bands I've never heard of and a band I have yet to hear but have some great interest in? In my personal financial situation, the answer is no. And yes, a dollar means a great fucking amount to me. Not that I'm frugal, it's that I don't have many dollars.

Also, with my ethics on how shows should be run, it is also a slight reason to not go to the show. It's not a personal attack to you or any of the bands.

To Mr. Anonymous, it's kind of lame to post an opinion like that without giving any kind of reason. Also you might not be familiar with this because I obviously don't know who you are, but it IS a big deal if it draws this much attention, yes? A dollar is a big deal to some people. If it wasn't, then why not leave it off, eh?
At 10/09/2005 1:50 AM, Anonymous said…

Crap, I (Bryan) posted that previous statement if it wasn't obvious.
At 10/09/2005 10:58 PM, miafrate said…

?
At 10/10/2005 9:12 AM, Brian said…

Well, I wonder if $6 worked. The turnout seemed alright, despite being a busy night.
At 10/10/2005 11:24 AM, Anonymous said…

we must take 'the treasurecat factor' into account, as well. treasurecat (quite rightly) have a loyal following who don't mind paying $6 to see their heroes, though i don't think they charged said amount at their first gig.
At 10/10/2005 4:33 PM, Anonymous said…

Tastes like burning! I'm touching cloth!
At 10/13/2005 11:09 PM, Anonymous said…

Well,
I must say that Deadsea were fucking awesome. For the most part I have always played the DIY basement, art/music/infoshop, living room, bed room circuit (well, in Ten Point Buck we palyed mainly age restricted shows. . .I will never fucking do that again). I guess I am not very well educated on this subject because it has never been an issue (it's $5 from Louisville to the Bay). I have never really made a fucking dime playing music, I have never had a guarantee. I only feel like I have been screwed once in all the times that I have played.
Anyhow, I am a little late in the game here. Mikey has/had pure intentions with the $6 at the recent gig. I think that he wanted to take care of the bands. Would I do it. . .no, but Mikey and I have beat that dead horse so many times that there is hardly anything left of the poor bastard (and we are still best friends). HAHA!
At 10/13/2005 11:15 PM, Anonymous said…

Fuck, the aboe is. . .
-tim
At 10/13/2005 11:17 PM, Anonymous said…

'above' and played not 'palyed'
-tim

Couches on Fire

Wednesday, October 05, 2005

greetings from the great white....east?

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